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  • Ochre
    Senior Member
    • Sep 2009
    • 363

    Less Clothes, Better Wardrobe?

    This thread was inspired by a recent New York Times article which struck a chord with me. Some may have read it: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/08/bu...me&ref=general

    it investigates the nature of spending and how it affects our happiness. The article touches on a lot of different topics including the fact that research now shows many consumers are beginning to favor experiences (eating out, traveling, etc..) over material goods. Interestingly enough, the single argument the article raises is that from an appreciator of fashion excerpted here:
    ...Of course, some fashion lovers beg to differ. For many people, clothes will never be more than utilitarian. But for a certain segment of the population, clothes are an art form, a means of self-expression, a way for families to pass down memories through generations. For them, studies concluding that people eventually stop deriving pleasure from material things don’t ring true.

    “No way,” says Hayley Corwick, who writes the popular fashion blog Madison Avenue Spy. “I could pull out things from my closet that I bought when I was 17 that I still love.”
    But arguing whether people prefer to spend money on a leather jacket or a trip to some exotic local is not what I'd like to do here. Another aspect the article talks about is the ability to appreciate your things more when you have less. I'd like to discuss this in relation to people's personal wardrobes.

    Looking at the relatively small "Post a Picture of Your Closet..." thread, you can see a pretty wide variety of wardrobe sizes. Some are most certainly prohibited by economic reasons (I include myself in that count), while others might be decidedly minimal. A lot of people here see their clothes as an extension of themselves or a physical and outward representation of their thoughts/desires/outlook, etc... and I'm wondering if the more clothes you collect, the less truthful that becomes — as if you're spreading yourself too thin or diluting the ultimate message. Or maybe thats completely wrong. From my personal perspective and very small wardrobe, I can say that I feel intimately connected with all of my pieces because I'm forced into wearing them so often. I never forget about something I own and I appreciate them all because each item meets a particular requirement the others do not so they're all unique in that regard.

    Also, I'm not specifically referring to a 'quality over quantity' argument. I think someone can easily appreciate a lesser quality item of clothing compared to one of higher quality. Simply removing all of the "junk" from your closet is a shallow way of putting this. I'm talking about critically assessing each individual piece in your wardrobe, compared to everything else, and deciding whether it makes you happy and if its an important addition to both your overall wardrobe and yourself.

    I'm curious what others think. How does the size of your wardrobe influence your happiness/appreciation of your clothes on an individual level? Do you see yourself ever revising your collection and getting rid of things just for the sake of reducing and not so you can just buy something else?

    *Please note that this thread is not meant in any way to be an attack on anyone's personal style of buying clothes. I have no intention of making a definitive right/wrong assessment here. I'm just providing my opinion and outlook and look forward to seeing if I can be swayed in another direction.
  • Faust
    kitsch killer
    • Sep 2006
    • 37849

    #2
    Good topic. By the way, I am totally in the tangible goods camp. I remember once talking with Albert about it on SZ and it actually kinda struck me when he said that he remembers a good meal for a long time. I am totally the opposite, I am drawn to tangible goods because you can reuse them and derive satisfaction from them for a long period of time. Of course all of my trips have been memorable... during the moments when I remember to remember them.

    As for the wardrobe. I would be lying if I said that novelty has no attraction - it does. So there is something to be said about buying that shiny new whatever. I tend to wear new things over and over again until their novelty wears off and it goes into the mix with the rest of my closet. I don't know if that's shallow or not. Wim Wenders thinks it isn't, so must be deep

    I still love buying books. I don't buy DVDs anymore (Netflix) and I buy a CD once a year if it's an artist I deeply respect and I want to get the benefit of the sound on my system that cannot be replicated by MP3. Otherwise, I'm fine right where I am. Besides, I'm broke :-)

    In a way I do live with less. I circulate about a dozen of garments during the summer, two dozen during the winter. The rest have accumulated for several reasons - change of style, change of work environment, change of weight. But I don't want to jettison my closet, because of what if... So, in a way I live with less and it is clear cut, but it doesn't mean I have to throw everything else away. And I cherish the stuff I have. That Helmut Lang biker that I wear a few times a year and I should really sell to Mr.Beyus, because he will do it justic - it's hard to part with.

    Having said that, I've sold about 20 garments this year from my closet here and on Ebay, and I have another dozen ready to go (not SZ worthy, off to Ebay). I will also give a few things to my Dad and some to Salvation Army. I do love getting rid of things - in a way it is a purifying experience.
    Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

    StyleZeitgeist Magazine

    Comment

    • zamb
      Senior Member
      • Nov 2006
      • 5834

      #3
      I was having a similar discussion with a client of mine a few hours ago. its rather interesting because I wasnt born rich, still not in some ways, but have a little more to spend now, and had a lot more a few years ago.
      I am not much of a traveler, and dont really go out much for the most part Im rather happy with less, but there was a time when that wasn't the case. I had at one point almost 100 pairs of shoes, my closet was rather massive (with a whole bunch of crap) when I bought clothing just for the sake of changing them to look fashionable than having any real appreciation for the pieces themselves,
      Now I never want to own more than about ten to twelve pairs of shoes
      For me the opportunity of having those experiences and to see life from both ends of the spectrum has helped me to realize that I dont need a lot, and its really is a waste of time and money unnecessarily acquire too much material things.

      I guess those who have always had to live with little (like earlier on in my life) and are unable to make the mental leap into realizing the complexities of having too much would never come to the conclusions that I have............
      I cant be bothered to have too much laundry to do, too much stuff to go to the cleaners.........and too much stuff occupying too much space and maintenance time!
      At this point in my life anything that has any value that isn't being used by me is up for sale or will be given away. As Faust said, its a "purifying experience"

      I haven't gotten around to creating my ideal wardrobe, but I have a pretty clear idea of what it will be, and it will not contain a lot of stuff. I know what kind of lifestyle I am will continue to live.
      Here is a breakdown of what my wardrobe will consist of in the near future...............

      1. Four well cut suits in dark Colors for church (1 per wk for a month)
      2. Three suits for special occasions, weddings, funerals etc.
      3. Well fitting dress shirts in light solid/ stripe colors (mostly white)
      4. Solid color tees in white/ grey / black for workdays
      5. Three prs of Black/ dark jeans for workdays/ cutoffs in the summer
      6. Jeans/ pants for Social events, hanging out
      7. Blazers/ jackets (some leather) for winter
      8. Two well cut Coats for Winter
      9. Sweaters/ long sleeve tees for winter

      Shoes,
      1. Pair Carpe Diem Boots........(well, maybe two)
      1 pair of CCP boots (hockeyes pleaaaseee!)
      2 pairs of sneakers/ casual shoes for working
      3 pairs of Derbys/ dress shoes for Church
      1 pair of Boots to trash in winter time

      Scarves/ Gloves/ Bags

      this is pretty much it, for me, there will always be the occasional odds and ends purchase, but this is it..............
      Last edited by zamb; 08-11-2010, 02:16 AM.
      “You know,” he says, with a resilient smile, “it is a hard world for poets.”
      .................................................. .......................


      Zam Barrett Spring 2017 Now in stock

      Comment

      • stretcheroo
        Senior Member
        • Nov 2009
        • 261

        #4
        I read that article and much of it rang true. With respect to material things, the longer you want something, the more you enjoy it once you get it.

        This is a topic that I've been thinking about increasingly since I discovered SZ a little less than a year ago. What I've discovered about myself is that spending $$ on the latest item that I have to have -- CCP boots, MA+ aviator, Augusta lace-ups-- has become more of an addiction for me than is healthy. It leaves me broke or in debt, and having the item just doesn't compare to the excitement of discovering, buying, and anticipating the delivery. Desiring it is better than having it. I'm finding that it feels better to let go of things than to accumulate them.

        Comment

        • Ochre
          Senior Member
          • Sep 2009
          • 363

          #5
          Very interesting self-reflection, stretcheroo.

          corsair sanglot, do you remember where Daumal makes that reference? I would be very interested in reading his comparison in its entirety.

          I have a lot more I'd like to comment/add but I'm busy with work... never enough hours in the day. More later.

          Comment

          • Sombre
            Senior Member
            • Jan 2009
            • 1291

            #6
            I'll talk about the wardrobe I'd like to have rather than the one I have now, as being a full-time student limits my disposable income. I like to feel connected to everything I have, so even given theoretically unlimited resources, I think I'd still like to keep a small, carefully chosen wardrobe. I hear my friends say sometimes that they found X garment in their closets that they forgot about, and I never want to get to that stage.

            I always have a good reason for buying what I do: to fill a "need", rather than an empty desire, and for me having more and more things causes me to forget the reasons I bought them in the first place. Forgetting those reasons would make me feel empty with respect to my possessions, which I don't want. The only kind of clothing I buy just to have more of is athletic wear, and that's because I get lazy from time to time and don't want to be doing laundry all the time .
            An artist is not paid for his labor, but for his vision. - James Whistler

            Originally posted by BBSCCP
            I order 1 in every size, please, for every occasion

            Comment

            • Mail-Moth
              Senior Member
              • Mar 2009
              • 1448

              #7
              That's a good subject ! Thanks for that.

              I am less interested in the items in themselves - that is, as objects, almost detached from their use - than in the way I'll be able to wear them. Thus when I buy something it is because it is meant to have a function in an ensemble I have in mind, and more than often in as many combinations as possible. I'll never buy one piece whose use would be limited to a single outfit. Nor would I buy one regardless of the use I would have of it.

              Thus my wardrobe is quite limited, and I truly hope it will stay the way it is. Each piece I own is an important part of it, even if I can take time to admit it because I'm worried about what I see as imperfections - and of course they are, when compared to some Ideal Jacket or Coat floating in the etherial space of some sartorial paradise, - ; and even if I sometimes have the temptation to sell (generally because I begin to worry about what I'll eat at the end of the month) - and more than often I retract my offers from the Classifieds after a few weeks - or even days. So I'm really all for the small wardrobe option - a very conservative interpretation of it in fact : the most advantageous ratio between the number of items and the possibilities offered by their combination.

              I even don't exclude not to buy anything anymore eventually - or just for the purpose of replacing worn-out garments.
              I can see a hat, I can see a cat,
              I can see a man with a baseball bat.

              Comment

              • beardown
                rekoner
                • Feb 2009
                • 1418

                #8
                Great topic.
                I think it boils down to priorities as people have mentioned. I already have a first love and a second love in my life. Clothing falls somewhere below that.
                There still is a slice of utilitarianism in all of this for me....I need clothing. It's easy to justify spending on it because I know it's something that I'll use. If I find that I can't use it or don't wear it enough, I can sell it and put that money to use on something else that I get plenty of wear from.
                Sure, there are cheaper clothes out there but I buy those too to fill in the blanks of the more substantial pieces I wear. I remember Faust writing about how he mostly spends on jackets and outerwear. At the time, I was thinking, 'that's no fun.'
                But that's where I'm at now and I'm really happy focusing on those two because those are the things that I always need and the places where I don't mind sinking money into for that reason.
                I am pretty good at editing things down to what I need and will use. If I haven't worn a piece for 6 months (winter stuff excluded) I'll get rid of it most likely.
                There are pieces that I sought out for a long time and were grails at one point that didn't fit the way I would have liked and it's tempting to keep them hanging around but it's not very practical.
                But there is a threshold for how many boots/jackets/pants you can wear and keep around.
                I don't want to be a collector. Ever. I think collections are manifestations of unfulfilled dreams and insecurities in a way. It's materialism mixed with emotion mixed with obsession and I don't like that idea.
                I see newer/younger members get caught up in what seems like collecting to me and it always seems like it's not going to end well. I have a house and property that I invest a lot of my money into. As we all found out, real estate isn't always the best investment. But I'm not planning on moving and my house is the heart and soul of what I am. I work here, I chill here, I use it as a studio, a place to host guests...it safely protects the things that mean the most to me...photos, notes, letters, artwork...things that cannot be replaced.
                And so I keep that in mind when I'm buying anything. Nothing materially means as much to me as my house simply because of what it provides for me.
                And travel is a huge part of what I love to do as well. Fortunately, most of that is paid for but I usually take a few trips overseas each year that I pay for so I don't have to work during.
                I remember some of the larger purchases of clothing because it's a huge deal to me regardless of my financial state. I grew up rather poor and feel like I was taught to appreciate what I own and what I pay for it.
                But I'm also an artist so I understand the concept of paying for ideas and craftsmanship and construction. The larger purchases I always look at it as buying a piece of art...but it's art I can put to use and serves a purpose.

                When I read people talk about having 30+ pieces of Rick Owens/Drkshdw, I have to wonder what's going on here sometimes. (No offense to the person who admitted that...it's just always really struck me as odd). It's almost similar to the mindset that people have when they're collecting Beanie Babies or some other kind of fanaticism.
                The person that posted that mentioned he had lost track he had so many.

                I never want to get to the point where I don't know exactly what I've got and where it's at. It's a deeper appreciation of the items...a personal relationship with my clothing and me and a relationship between the other pieces of clothing themselves. They have to work together so I keep all the other stuff in mind when I'm getting something new.
                I also never want to get the point where I refer to clothing by item or inventory numbers. I see that more and more and it strikes me as odd sometimes....I know shoes can be complicated in terms of materials and that but it seems so cold and impersonal to me. It does have that 'Beanie Baby' feel to it when I see it written out.
                Like 'I'm looking for item Vs9dj101 instead of item Vs9dj102.'
                I'm not being judgmental, I think it represents a line crossed in terms of what we're discussing in this thread for me personally.

                I'll always love the chase of a Holy Grail, I just try to be a bit more practical about it and realistic about it in this economy. Nothing you spend money on will ever make you feel more whole than you already are.
                But material items can certainly bring some comfort to you, especially if they are things that you will use and use until they eventually can't be used again.
                I have read some debate as to whether or not clothing is an investment. In my eyes, it is 100%. Just not in the typical manner. I see it as an investment in yourself. Not in the sense that it provides a financial return for the money you pay for it; rather the emotional connection you form with clothing that makes it a part of you.

                I hope people continue to discuss this because in my opinion, it's a subject that separates the consumers from those who have some intangible connection to the pieces and designers themselves.
                Originally posted by mizzar
                Sorry for being kind of a dick to you.

                Comment

                • Fuuma
                  Senior Member
                  • Sep 2006
                  • 4050

                  #9
                  Hmm, I think I'm aiming for a small wardrobe but I actually ended up with a mid-sized maybe even big one.
                  Selling CCP, Harnden, Raf, Rick etc.
                  http://www.stylezeitgeist.com/forums...me-other-stuff

                  Comment

                  • Fade to Black
                    Senior Member
                    • Sep 2008
                    • 5340

                    #10
                    My actual wardrobe is very limited and minimal; my imaginary wardrobe is endless and I enjoy this configuration. I've always enjoyed yearning after the idea of owning something over actually doing so - every time I've wanted something badly enough I went out and got it, the magic died.
                    www.matthewhk.net

                    let me show you a few thangs

                    Comment

                    • Mail-Moth
                      Senior Member
                      • Mar 2009
                      • 1448

                      #11
                      I don't know if you can avoid that, actually. There's always this moment when you're confronted to the material thing, and when you realize that, how beautifully crafted it may be, this is just, well - a thing. And not an idea anymore.

                      But I think that another kind of magic takes place as you get used to it.
                      I can see a hat, I can see a cat,
                      I can see a man with a baseball bat.

                      Comment

                      • BBSCCP
                        Senior Member
                        • Feb 2010
                        • 352

                        #12
                        Originally posted by Fade to Black View Post
                        My actual wardrobe is very limited and minimal; my imaginary wardrobe is endless and I enjoy this configuration. I've always enjoyed yearning after the idea of owning something over actually doing so - every time I've wanted something badly enough I went out and got it, the magic died.
                        I know that feeling which is kind of sad.
                        Best would be to have all your best clothes ready in only one huge "luggage". Unfortunately I have a set of such luggages at home, but I am trying to minimize the figure...

                        Comment

                        • Shucks
                          Senior Member
                          • Aug 2010
                          • 3104

                          #13
                          i'm not sure how i feel about this - on the one hand it is nice to savour the comfort and emotional attachment of old pieces, on the other i find my tastes becoming more and more discerning which makes it difficult to appreciate some old items other than as elements of nostalgia. not that i'm not prone to wallowing in nostalgia, mind you.

                          but to me it has with time become less and less appealing to 'consume' which is a sentiment many share here i believe, and why some of us gravitated towards SZ in the first place. but obviously in being here on SZ (and showing each other what we own) there is a paradox. we are both celebrating what we have - which can be a positive i think - but also unfortunately most likely also reinforcing a pattern of consumption amongst each other.

                          also, isn't there actually something insidious in the way some 'SZ items' speak a reassuring language of 'artifact' and 'craft' but are both intended by the producer and consumed by us, as if they are your average run-of-the-mill fashion system products? i mean, when acquiring a handmade object, but just to add to your overabundant collection of other handmade objects, does the artisanal value even matter? i like ochre's idea of being intimately connected. isn't that all we can hope for in life - connectedness to our world?

                          the conscious act of 'treasuring' what we already have attained can rescue us from disconnect. and i think it is easier to do with less objects to treasure... or we can accept that we will always desire something unattainable, but also realize that chasing after it will also always be unfulfilling. dreaming in itself may be what we should treasure.

                          Comment

                          • Fade to Black
                            Senior Member
                            • Sep 2008
                            • 5340

                            #14
                            Out goes the graceful
                            Dirty Rick
                            In its place a youthful
                            Thirty Rick.
                            www.matthewhk.net

                            let me show you a few thangs

                            Comment

                            • Faust
                              kitsch killer
                              • Sep 2006
                              • 37849

                              #15
                              Great posts, everyone. I really appreciate your thoughtful contributions - THIS is what makes SZ.

                              Shucks - first a separate thanks for contributing an interesting post, being a new member and all. Now, to address your post - indeed, there is an element of reinforcement here, but at the end of the day the man is the measure of all things - you don't have to succumb to it. Sure, some people want to gain acceptance and think that shopping sprees provide that, but others don't. I know, of course, that sometimes it's not easy to keep a cool head about.

                              As for deterioration of artisanal value - I am not sure about that. I don't think the amount you own necessarily diminishes it. And as far as producers of it - well, some are genuine, others are not. We can only judge by what they say and what they make. The fact that they operate in a commercial system is a part of it (see the manifesto on the front page), and there is no way of getting around it. What are you going to do, put them in museums?
                              Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

                              StyleZeitgeist Magazine

                              Comment

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