Carol Christian Poell

[destroymebaby]

Well, you know what they say: He object dyed for our sins.

[Schleudersitz]

But, but, it's Carol!!! That's like Jesus!

But, in all seriousness, what would you consider relevant to fashion if people like carol do not make the grade in your view? I understand your low opinion of this thread and the reasons behind it.

[Faust]

But, in all seriousness, what would you consider relevant to fashion if people like carol do not make the grade in your view? I understand your low opinion of this thread and the reasons behind it.

We've had this conversation before, but basically I don't consider Poell relevant to fashion at all. He is a hermit that works in his own little workshop - he does not work in fashion. He has had no influence on fashion and he never will. He is not Westwood, Gaultier, Margiela, McQueen, Demeulemeester, Kawakubo, Yamamoto, Helmut Lang, Raf Simons, Rick Owens, or Hedi Slimane. You get my drift?

[Schleudersitz]

We've had this conversation before, but basically I don't consider Poell relevant to fashion at all. He is a hermit that works in his own little workshop - he does not work in fashion. He has had no influence on fashion and he never will. He is not Westwood, Gaultier, Margiela, McQueen, Demeulemeester, Kawakubo, Yamamoto, Helmut Lang, Raf Simons, Rick Owens, or Hedi Slimane. You get my drift?

Definitely, but some of the above names cited like rick owens or westwood started out on the fringes, well outside of the establishment. They did not present in paris and were not considered relevant in that time. Despite all that, thee work these people created during their early years has been exhibited in museums. For some, their later careers constitute a struggle to re-capture the spark of earlier vision.

From what I have read in the CCP thread, several prominent art and costume museums including kyoto costume and moderne kunst wien maintain entire seasons of Poell's work in their archives. Would this not suggest that he is relevant to art and culture, if not fashion?

All this not seeking to be contrarian, but to better understand your criteria. If we examine what has relevance today within popular culture surrounding the fashion establishment, it would be just as far removed from what you've shown affinity towards with few exceptions.

[Faust]

A) they may have started on the fringes, but they wanted to be in the center - Poell does not. He's been designing for 15 years or so? Not exactly a novice. B) don't believe everything you read in the Poell thread. Anyway, who gives a shit - the guy hasn't been made a collection in four years. I've got no time for misunderstood geniuses and neither does fashion.

[Schleudersitz]

A) they may have started on the fringes, but they wanted to be in the center

While I do not have your sources or level of insight into the fashion indusry, it comes off strange when you suggest that Helmut Lang wanted to be in the center of the fashion establishment.

I understand that carol has not produced in a number of years, but most certainly neither have some of the people in your list of relevant designers. So what I think you were trying to say is that you have no time for people who play outside of the ecology you are personally involved in as a critic. I can respect this focus.

But as far as the forum goes, surely there is room here for people who feel differently about this.

[Faust]

Lol, you can't be serious. Stop trolling.

[Schleudersitz]

Lol, you can't be serious. Stop trolling.

The questions were sincere, but I understand now that asking them was a mistake. Moving on.

[zamb]

I share a different view on Carol's relevance to fashion than Faust does. While I agree that he does not wosh to be at the center, the fact that many of his ideas and techniques are copied/ mimic by others, there is no telling, if and when an influential designer/ company may copy something of his and bring it further into the mainstream.

On the subject of the codes, I do not believe such things warrant a separate thread in and of themselves and to an extent they are useless, and here are several reasons why.

1). Many of the fabrics are the same fabrics used in different ways (on the cross grain or on the reverse) and in those instances are given a different code.

2). Unless you have Carol's inventory of swatches or are exposed to a wide assortment of his clothing there is little or no way of knowing on any advanced level what the codes mean. Two fabrics can have exactly the same composition, however the weave and weight of the fabric gives it a completely different look and feel that cannot be known without touching and experiencing the fabrics in person.

3). Carol has not done a new collection in 4 years. I am certain when he does, the fabrics used will be completely different from the ones used in the 2010 collection and will have a completely different set of codes. It essentially makes these current ones irrelevant. If i remember correctly one retailer that carries his work said most of the fabrics from the past collection are actually finished and unavaiable to order items with/ from.

[Lois Grüveltner]

Maybe it's the wrong thread for saying this if so, then please delete. In regards to what Faust is saying I agree; I don't see Carol as a fashion designer nor a fashion icon like the the designers that has been mentioned. His clothes is more art than fashionable wear and his expression is in the creative process, buy taking a pair of shoes and making them into - literarily a peace of art. - like the drips with the dripping soles ! - The ambition is not to revolutionize the fashion world or making the consumer more independent of it..

His philosophy is just appealing to a lot of discerning people that has grown tired of the too established fashion scene.

[francojean23]

It's all fashion, fringe or otherwise. The fact that he is considered outside the "mainstream" or the "establishment" is just a misconception that is a product of the inability to see how sophisticated the flows or capital are... Notwithstanding his custom orders, he still makes clothes for a market, sold in boutiques alongside all the other more iconic and overtly influential designers mentioned.

He's no more a genius than someone from my field, Gehry. It's a myth that derives higher price points.

Art it is not. Until his pieces are valued in the art market, he's still a designer.

[Lois Grüveltner]

I agree with a lot of the things you're saying. - Still I see it more as art modeled clothes than direct fashion. - Right now and for several years he has been hyped but if you look at the 2004 collection, "Mainstream Downstream" his expression is the same as it is today..

[hurricane08]

[boodude]

^^ Nice! Where and when? thx

[Atom]

Looks like a CCP store/space in Rome.