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Margiela x H&M ???

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  • mrbeuys
    Senior Member
    • May 2008
    • 2313

    Originally posted by Faust View Post
    I wouldn't be surprised if he's referring to our editorial photographer, Jennifer Tzar. They used to be friends. I'll ask her.
    Exactly what I thought reading it...
    Hi. I like your necklace. - It's actually a rape whistle, but the whistle part fell off.

    Comment

    • zamb
      Senior Member
      • Nov 2006
      • 5834

      Well that would be a nice coincidence regarding jennifer, she definitely seem like the type of client margiela would want to have.

      the fundamental reason i hate this collab, is exactly in the excerpt i posted from the article. I have follwed his work for many years, since about 2002 and did a lot of research on what he did before that. margiela had a style, and it wasn't just in the clothing, it was in everything, the way the maison operated, the way the collections were presented; standing room only at the shows so that no damn big name editor would have a front row seat, a diverse body of women who were not exactly models so that people could see what the clothes looked like on real people.............All of this stuff was about celebrating the individually of the wearer and infusing an intellectual chord in all aspects of the work. this is a significant reason why his work was loved by different types of artists, architects, designers, photographers, store owners etc. He was the designer of everyday wear for creative people.
      “You know,” he says, with a resilient smile, “it is a hard world for poets.”
      .................................................. .......................


      Zam Barrett Spring 2017 Now in stock

      Comment

      • zamb
        Senior Member
        • Nov 2006
        • 5834

        Originally posted by rilu
        well, if he's really a fan of nikes he can't be much outside of the system.



        the culture of protest (in its various art forms inclusive) is a very important institution which helps to show where the politics/society has gone wrong. laypersons don't have to have a ready-made solution in order to "complain" that they're being exploited or abused. usually though solutions aren't even that difficult to come up with (check OWS for instance), though most times they require bigger economic changes (such as those regarding taxation system etc.) which those in power are unlikely to even take into any serious consideration.
        Im surprised you would say this. and am I reading a contradiction in this statement. if you know what is wrong to the point of protesting, should you at least be able to think about a possible solution to what you are railing against?........
        since as you say, solutions arent that difficult to devise?
        “You know,” he says, with a resilient smile, “it is a hard world for poets.”
        .................................................. .......................


        Zam Barrett Spring 2017 Now in stock

        Comment

        • mrbeuys
          Senior Member
          • May 2008
          • 2313

          Originally posted by zamb View Post
          Im surprised you would say this. and am I reading a contradiction in this statement. if you know what is wrong to the point of protesting, should you at least be able to think about a possible solution to what you are railing against?........
          since as you say, solutions arent that difficult to devise?
          I would think there is a difference between protest which takes the form of pointing out injustice or abuse that you suffer and that which takes the form of commenting on this injustice or abuse without being affected by it.
          The latter one should indeed come with a basic idea of a solution.
          Hi. I like your necklace. - It's actually a rape whistle, but the whistle part fell off.

          Comment

          • christianef
            Senior Member
            • Feb 2009
            • 747

            Originally posted by Eternal
            If you believe this was "staged" and at the same time done by Kidult, I'm not sure you know much about him at all. I believe he's close to fanatic, as he seem to be very political or at least hiding behind that message.

            He seems to believe everyone stole from street culture, but that street culture were influenced from others again doesn't seem to matter. At the same time he's very concerned with rich people consuming in the west and poor people starving in other parts of the world. He's somehow interested in the ethics related to luxury consumption, but love his Nikes as long as they are street culture. He even wear some of the most hyped Nikes in the recent years, and I think he's too "fashion" ( Hypebeast) himself to really stand on the outside. He did not dig deep enough, and he seems to believe that some sort of socialist borderline communist revolution is needed soon. Like many other both french and spanish people are fighting for as well.

            If you watch his short documentary I believe it all boils down to hate to be honest. Hating the rich for the fact that they might not deserve to be rich, and for not showing more compassion towards their poorer countrymen. Maybe he did watch the new Batman movie too many times, and love Bane a bit too much.

            It seems to be the consensus that people who fall outside of the system are working against it and making up excuses instead of trying to be a part of it and slowly change it. I'm not sure how much I respect someone just complaining when they don't really have an answer for how it should be done instead.
            feed the kids spray paint. whyd he go after supreme cus they used an image of kate moss? seems kinda arbitrary. i dont really buy these self appointed saviours of street culture enemies of the status quo kid probably just a mediocre artist generic hype beast loser and needed a crutch to stand out.

            Comment

            • zamb
              Senior Member
              • Nov 2006
              • 5834

              Originally posted by mrbeuys View Post
              I would think there is a difference between protest which takes the form of pointing out injustice or abuse that you suffer and that which takes the form of commenting on this injustice or abuse without being affected by it.
              The latter one should indeed come with a basic idea of a solution.
              indeed there is a difference

              but I would like to think those who are immediately affected should at least be able to conceive of a potential solution regardless of how effective this may be or ones inability to set the solution in motion. I think we are all in some ways affected, at least in the second instance the effect on you compels you to point out the wrong of the situation because it disturbs your sense of justice.

              I think what was done to margiela and to his name is unjust, I honestly hate to see a word where there are no real distinctions between those who are doing good intelligent work for the beauty if it, even in the context of a business, or those who are doing clothes just to find the cheapest way to make the most profit.
              “You know,” he says, with a resilient smile, “it is a hard world for poets.”
              .................................................. .......................


              Zam Barrett Spring 2017 Now in stock

              Comment

              • Faust
                kitsch killer
                • Sep 2006
                • 37852

                Class consciousness, bitches!!!

                Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

                StyleZeitgeist Magazine

                Comment

                • mrbeuys
                  Senior Member
                  • May 2008
                  • 2313

                  Thanks Rilu. That was what I had I mind.
                  If however I were to protest in the streets about the unjust treatment of sweat shop workers I better have a case for how it can be changed.

                  Otherwise protest just becomes an h&m x mmm accessorie.

                  I even forgot what this thread was about and how we got here.
                  Hi. I like your necklace. - It's actually a rape whistle, but the whistle part fell off.

                  Comment

                  • 525252
                    Senior Member
                    • Dec 2010
                    • 246

                    So how does
                    Margiela is an example of "good"
                    lead to:
                    "Margiela" is an attribute of "good"?


                    Basically "Margiela" takes a portion of "Good", and vice versa. Think about when you try to teach a child a concept such as "fruit", we do not phenomenologically reduce the concept to its essence and attempt to teach rationalised abstractions to the child. Because that's actually stupid. You'd show them a picture of an apple rather than discuss what makes true "fruitness".

                    So yes, in this way an apple is an attribute of "fruit".

                    I don't get how you get this either. So, how does from "A is an attribute of B" follow "B is A"? If we say "yellow if an attribute of this shirt", then from that it doesn't follow that "all shirts are yellow".
                    To begin with thats an invalid conclusion! it would not be "all shirts are yellow" but "this shirt is an attribute of yellow". Lets rewrite the bolded text: Good is an attribute of Margiela ("A is an attribute of B") and Margiela is Good ("B is A")

                    Why would such a conclusion be irrational? From "M. is good" follows "M. is not not-good", that's all according to classical logic from what i can see.


                    See how if we say "Margiela is not not good", it can now be anything which is not the white space around, it can be the whole green circle, not just a portion of it. It is irrational that Margiela can be the whole green cirlcle "good" when we know not all good things are Margiela.

                    The analogy of the child before is not to say those who follow this logic are dumb etc. Everyone follows this logic in some way, there is no other way to make sense of concepts we can't grasp but know are there. That is why questions like "what is art" are still being asked.

                    So yep, I think we're on the same page regarding everything else.
                    Soooooooo. Just to bring everything back to real-world-sense: people who buy H&M aren't dumb, people who criticise them aren't dumb. If not either of those, everyone is eternally stupid.
                    Last edited by 525252; 11-21-2012, 02:28 AM.

                    Comment

                    • casem
                      Senior Member
                      • Sep 2006
                      • 2590

                      A bit off topic, but to put things in perspective this reminded me that were I grew up H&M is expensive high fashion to most people. There were no H&Ms around but the cool kids with money enough to travel would travel 6 hours to Chicago to score goods from H&M on holidays.

                      Originally posted by BSR View Post
                      where are those quotes from (they're amazing)?

                      I suppose we would need quantitative data here too: for instance what is the proportion of 'poor people' who shop at H&M in the US among the total number of H&M clients and conversely, what is the proportion of 'rich people' who shop at H&M, what is the average amount they spend in there, and how does this amount compare to the average amount they spend on clothing per year on other brands (making a distinction between low range and high market)?
                      music

                      Comment

                      • 525252
                        Senior Member
                        • Dec 2010
                        • 246

                        Originally posted by rilu
                        ok, i think i'm getting your ideas now! :D and what i said in my last "p.s." post summarized it well then, didn't it (or did i miss something there)? i think this is an interesting way to look at how hypes in culture appear in general, and how learning new "language games" may often lead to this kind of unwarranted twists in reasoning.
                        Yep I think the p.s. post summarised it nicely! :)

                        Though I don't think its an unwarranted twist in reasoning! Its a natural and inevitable condition of human perception and cognition, I think I vaguely said this before but the H&MxMMM thing is totally interesting because it shows the limits of rational logic. We can explain to someone why Margiela is great but we can't make them understand. We could talk about the essence of fruit-ness for hours or we could just point at an apple.

                        Comment

                        • Faust
                          kitsch killer
                          • Sep 2006
                          • 37852

                          Brain explode.
                          Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

                          StyleZeitgeist Magazine

                          Comment

                          • 525252
                            Senior Member
                            • Dec 2010
                            • 246

                            I think your example of legality and legitimacy is a different case, this is a confusion and it is impractical and non-sensical. However, to see a paradigm as a definitive point of a concept is not a confusion, it is an irrational truth. The matter of practicality or sense does not apply, it is simply a truth.

                            An example: graffiti was once a form of protest, now it is also recognised as a form of painting and by extension, art. "Painting" and "art" have all changed meanings through the course of events and they will all continue to change. That does not make the new meanings unwarranted or incorrect or confused. The new meanings continually redefine what we consider to be painterly or artistic.

                            (I'm quite sure that Badiou's "event" is relevant to this, but i need to read more because the application of maths is quite difficult)

                            Comment

                            • 525252
                              Senior Member
                              • Dec 2010
                              • 246

                              hmm, not sure if there is any reasoning behind that logic given that its irrational.

                              I feel like criticism towards such a state of affairs is like Heidegger and co. (Sobchak, Baudrillard etc.) freaking out about television being awful dangerous technology- I mean its all very valid, but a bit ...(dare I say) pointless?

                              haha that reading group could quite possibly comprise of you and me only (not much of a group)

                              Comment

                              • BSR
                                Senior Member
                                • Aug 2008
                                • 1562

                                i think basic first order logic would help you too, given the A=B / B=A thing which is extremely confused, but i'm too lazy to read all this
                                pix

                                Originally posted by Fuuma
                                Fuck you and your viewpoint, I hate this depoliticized environment where every opinion should be respected, no matter how moronic. My avatar was chosen just for you, die in a ditch fucker.

                                Comment

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